Mozerella! Naza!
This interview will be known as...
statement...
483.
The subject is Juliana da Costa, born in Dili,
and current resident of Maubisse.
Tetum, Mambai, Portuguese and English speaker.
Widow.
4 dependent children.
Thank you.
Yes.
- Juliana, - Yes.
most of today we've been assembling information...
with regards to the events of December the 7th, 1975,
and I note here that you were in Dili on that day.
Yes.
Juliana.
Juliana,
was there anyone in the crowd that you can identify for us?
Yes.
A man.
Now...
I understand.
Okay, here we are.
Morning.
McGuire came by.
He wants you to meet him at the Darwin Hotel for lunch.
- Alright. - And there's a man here to meet you.
He's been waiting since before we opened.
- Who, that bloke? - Yes.
- Who is he? - José Ramos-Horta.
I think that's what he said.
Would you get me a glass of water and some Aspro?
Tell him I'm busy.
Look at them.
2 pieces of shit in matching shirts.
This is not the only thing they have in common.
Those look very tasty.
I will steal 2. I will steal 2 of these.
I take one. I take one.
Okay, one.
Like my secretary told you,
I'm busy.
No, obviously I see you're very, very busy.
But I...
I have come a long way to find you, Roger East.
Disappointed?
My name is José Ramos-Horta.
I am the East Timor Fretilin Government's...
Secretary of Foreign Affairs.
I have a proposition for you.
Here.
You look like you could use a real feed.
Come on then.
So this is where you plan to write your memoirs?
Yeah, if I could remember any of them.
You know, Roger, I have read much of your work.
Is that right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I particularly enjoyed your
condemnations of Kissinger and his kind.
Your coverage of the U.S. civil rights movement was not too bad.
Very good.
From Johannesburg you wrote about--
Rugby and cricket.
And apartheid.
You are well read.
I was in the navy up until 1944.
Then they,
discharged me.
- You know what for? - What?
- Psychotic tendencies. - What?
You're going to kill me in my sleep.
No, you're safe.
Roger.
Please allow me to... to speak to you openly.
Alright.
Fire away.
These...
things you are writing now, the work you do is bullshit.
You... you wrote with passion?
With fire.
About important things that matter to the world.
I am offering you,
on behalf of my government,
a position as the head of our news agency.
The boss.
Full access to... to my country,
to my people, to tell our story.
- Run by the government. - No. No, no, no.
ETNA, the East Timor News Agency, is completely independent.
There is no such thing, my friend.
No.
No, perhaps not, but that is where you come in.
I don't come in anywhere.
Aye, Roger.
Roger, Roger, Roger.
My country...
has very, very little time.
Please, please consider this simple proposition,
if only for tonight.
While Indonesia denies any plans...
to claim this nation as its own,
the Fretilin government in Dili believe otherwise.
Fretilin troops are preparing to defend Balibo...
- from this 300 year old... - No!
- Portuguese fort... - No, Fernando, no!
With nearby seas rich with oil and gas,
the question is, how long will it be--
Okay, Roger. Okay, I have to go.
This is Tony Maniaty for ABC Television.
Thank you for your good company and a place to spend the night.
Hey. Hey, hey. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Hang on.
What's going on? What's happening?
Look, there is only a small window...
before your country closes down flights to our nation.
In a few days, perhaps a few hours.
Tell the world.
I've retired from that shit.
Hang on.
You need somebody younger.
Your country already sent young journalists.
5 of them.
What are you talking about?
What 5 journalists?
What journalists?
These young journalists.
Not that your government gives a shit now that they are missing.
Take it.
Bye, Roger.
Bye.
Roger East.
I heard you just got back from Timor.
Can I come in?
Well I'm glad to see the ABC...
is taking good care of you since your return.
Thanks.
So how was it over there?
You know, Mr. Maniaty,
sometimes it helps just to talk it out.
Look, the reason I came to talk to you is because that...
young chap, Horta,
has offered me a job running the East Timor Free Press.
Are you insane?
I wanted to get some information from you.
You don't want to be going in now. The Indonesians are going to invade--
So there are Indonesians warships off the coast?
Yes.
And the Indonesians are on the ground.
They're not in uniforms, so you don't know who to trust.
There was shelling every day.
We were just sitting in Dili waiting for the invasion,
and we didn't know when it was going to come. And...
- Why... why would you want to go? - For the same reason you were there.
Did you see any of the journalists from Channel 9...
or Channel 7 on your way out?
I saw Shackleton.
Right.
I told them it was too dangerous.
I warned them.
And what'd they say?
Hello?
Brian?
Mal Rennie here.
Hello Mal.
We're off to East Timor.
Seven's beat us to it. Packer's furious.
Get your shit together. We leave tomorrow.
Okay, mate.
- You're still in bed? - Yes I am, Malcolm.
See you tomorrow.
I will say no more on the subject of Timor.
I'll leave it at that.
But Prime Minister, what is Australia's position on East Timor?
I will not elaborate on the statement I made.
Yeah, hi Dad. It's Gary.
Yeah, yeah, I'm good. I'm good.
Look, I'm going to be heading overseas.
Not long. Probably about a week or 2.
I don't know, Dad.
Look, I'll write, okay?
Yeah.
There are these 5 young journalists have gone missing.
- Hello, little man. Hello. - Hello, Daddy.
The Australian government is doing bugger all, as usual.
Come inside, my man.
They just say they're dead.
Draw me a little picture.
Make me a little present. A little going away present.
Okay?
So, Jim's got you on the big jobs, then.
Yes, and tomorrow we head off at 7 in the morning.
That's good for you.
Yeah, I think this is a good one.
I just want to go out there and see for myself.
Yeah. Well, 3 cigarettes?
No, I'm sitting this one out, mate.
Smart boy.
There she is.
So how far ahead is Shackleton do you think?
2 days. Haven't beat us yet mate!
Talk to you later.
Viva!
Hello?
Welcome to the Hotel Turismo.
Hello, Senor East.
- How are you? - Very good, thank you.
What kind of fish is that?
This is piece called coco fish.
From Laklo River, south of here.
They swim up river to breed, before heading downstream, out to sea.
It's a very clever fish, you know?
Would you...
would you like to join me in a glass of wine?
No, no.
Please, sit. Sit down.
Thank you.
Is that your daughter?
Yes, that's Juliana.
She's been a great, great help in the hotel.
Yes, I know.
I... understand that there were some journalists here recently.
Yes.
They were sitting where you're sitting.
Only 3 weeks ago.
- Where were they going? - I think they go to Balibo.
This is Dili, where we are,
and this is Balibo near the Indonesian border.
Ramos-Horta arranged it.
- Horta? - Yes.
Well, I think we might get going, actually.
Tony. Tony!
No, no, no. I appreciate your enthusiasm.
Tonight drink, eat. Tomorrow we go.
Maybe one more hour.
Senor East? You enjoy your meal?
- Yes, it was excellent. -That's good.
Juliana, can you bring the glass and the bottle?
Wait a minute.
- That's for you. - Thank you.
It's an Australian coin.
Here, let me teach you.
Keep your thumb straight,
and just use your flumb--
You just use your thumb to flick it, alright?
Perfect.
Well done.
Who's that?
That is the Queen of England.
What's she doing on it?
That's a very good question.
I think your friends left some bag behind.
So... so he knows where we're going?
- No. - Perfect.
Yes. He will take you up there.
- Alright. We'll see you soon. - Okay. Okay.
Okay, have fun.
We're away!
Bye bye!
You didn't tell me...
that you took the first group of journalists up to Balibo.
I didn't?
No.
Well yes, yes, I arranged for the first group to travel to Balibo,
But only if it was safe.
So who drove them?
A man named Ximines.
Anything else you've forgotten to tell me?
No.
Obrigado.
Look, Roger.
Look. Mango.
Our nation's most famous aphrodisiac.
- I think I'm a bit past that, mate. - Are you?
This Ximines chap.
Was he with the journalists in Balibo?
He's in Maubara, half a day's journey.
How do I get there?
Roger, please.
It's very dangerous.
There's very important work to do in Dili.
How do I get there?
Okay.
We make a deal.
I will take you to Maubara, okay?
I will show you.
And then we go back to Dili and you run our news agency.
Deal?
Okay, Maubara it is.
Now it's quiet.
Very quiet.
Some say deceptively so.
But just 50 kilometres away, on the border between Indonesia,
guerilla fighting continues.
Maubara.
Maubara. 2-1-2. Two.
- Great, Greg. - Keep going.
Maubara, 1-2, 1-2. Alright.
Just watch the radio there.
They are returning from the frontlines.
Long before a war officially begins, there are frontlines to defend.
We stay here the night.
Tomorrow we find Ximines.
Roger, this way.
Okay, come on, come on, let's go.
Okay, okay. Camera's rolling. And...
There's marshal music in between his words.
Is his speech very warlike?
Does he talk a lot about fighting?
Yeah, he has talked long time for fighting.
Only fighting.
And hoping that people will listen to the radio.
And when Fretilin broadcasts, what does Fretilin say?
The Fretilin say we are not Communists.
Great. Gary?
Yeah, good-oh. Happy.
Happy.
Okay, fantastic. Thank you very much, everybody.
Obrigado. Obrigado.
Say thank you to these people?
What is this?
Indonesian propaganda.
What are they saying?
They say they know an Australian journalist has arrived in Dili.
They look forward to slitting his throat when they find him.
Okay goodnight, Roger.
Very funny.
Okay, what were they really saying?
Horta?
Roger!
Good morning.
What's going on, mate?
The Indonesians are advancing. Everyone is retreating to Dili.
I found Ximines.
Let me talk to him.
I found him, huh? 10 minutes.
- Ok. - No, 5 minutes.
- Alright, alright. - 5 minutes,
- because we have to go. - As much as I can have.
Are you right to go now?
- Pronto. - Alright, jump in.
You speak English?
Yes, he speaks English. But I will translate for him.
I'm looking for 5 Australian journalists.
Have you seen them?
Saya tahu.
- Yes, he knows. - Where?
He was... he was their driver.
He took the group up from Dili to Balibo.
This was 3 weeks ago.
He took them to Balibo. He waited and he waited.
They would not come.
They would not retreat.
Okay, we have to go.
Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no, no.
So it's possible, it's possible that they're still alive, right?
Is it possible?
Maybe go to mountain.
Okay.
I want you to draw me a map.
- Roger... - Understand?
the Indonesians are invading.
- We have to go. - A map.
- Everyone is retreating. - Please.
Draw me a map of Balibo.
Here is Balibo.
The Fort Portuguese is here.
Indonesia attack from here.
But first, we walk to Maliana.
There is a school mission--
School mission.
Baras, Baras.
- That's it. Okay. - Okay.
- How do we get there? - The mission school?
Yes.
It's impossible.
It's impossible, Roger. All of the roads are blocked.
Well how long would it take to walk there?
To walk?
12, 14 hours journey, walking. For me.
And you're an old man.
And you're a young man, so you set the pace.
Jadi, kamu yang mengatur kecepatan.
Just get a couple of shots of those huts there and see what you get.
Just the huts?
Shackleton.
Tony Maniaty, ABC.
- I was hoping we'd run into you. - How did you know we were here?
It's all over the Indonesian radio. They're not happy we're here, mate.
Fretilin's preparing to defend Balibo,
- but I don't like their chances. - That's where we're headed.
We're off there. We're going to Balibo.
The Indonesian warships off the coast.
Choppers circling overhead, mortar fire--
Well, did you film it?
No, we didn't have a chance.
We had to get out of there in a hurry.
Look Shackleton, it's not worth it.
Believe me or don't believe me, but it's just not safe there.
Well outside Balibo.
Is there anywhere else we can film the invasion from?
Let's go, boys.
Can you...
Can you take this back to Dili Airport for us?
Thanks, mate.
Sure.
Here we go. You got your bathers on, boys?
Welcome.
Greg Shackleton. Channel 7. How are ya?
Padre Silva.
G'day, Father. Gary. Gary Cunningham.
- You're very welcome. - Thanks for having us.
- Hi, Tony Stewart. - Silva. Welcome.
Good to meet ya.
So, what's happening here, Father?
Where are these people going?
Refugees fleeing from the border.
And you're staying here?
How could I ever leave this?
So I hear you've got a swimming pool.
Yeah, where's that?
Well it's up the back.
This way? This way! This way!
I'll just get the bags.
What happened to your finger?
Nothing.
Sorry, fellas.
Cheers, mate.
Welcome to Timor.
Cheers, Mal.
So, Channel 7 beat you to it.
Well not yet, mate.
Plenty of time to catch up.
Maybe you should just stick around here for a while.
Well there's no point just sitting around here...
filming bloody Fretilin walking around.
Where's Shackleton?
The border?
That's where the story is. That's where we're going.
No, but Shackleton's crazy.
He's just doing his job.
Yeah, and we can't let him get out of there before we do.
We do have a driver José said he would take us there.
José?
Horta?
With some of the soldiers, so we should be--
Thank you for your concern, Tony.
Has he said that he'll protect you?
In a sense.
I... yeah.
In and out.
Malcolm, in and out. Malcolm.
Do you hear that?
- Helicopter? - Yes.
Is that one of yours?
Are you fucking kidding me?
Here we are, boys.
Yeah, this Balibo.
No, stay in the car. Just stay in the car.
Australian.
Hello.
Sabika.
Greg Shackleton, Channel 7.
Greg, can we get out?
Do you mind if my men get out of the car?
Yeah, please.
- From Australia? - Yes.
- How are you? - I'm very well.
- G'day. - Welcome.
How're you going, mate? Tony Stewart.
We spoke to José Horta.
Yes. I did get the message, but the situation here is very tense.
Okay, well I think that suits us.
Do you mind if we... our camera equipment?
Camera equipment.
Yeah, of course.
I can send some of my soldiers to help you.
Mister.
Cigarette.
Yeah. You want one?
- Yeah, thank you. - Yeah, go ahead.
A 60 man Fretilin garrison is here and there are rumours...
There are rumours that Indonesian soldiers...
are making their way up the road from Batugade.
Ready to go.
Alright, 3, 2...
The buildings here are deserted, and strewn with rubbish,
yet the spectacular flowers and flame trees remain.
The 60 man Fretilin garrison is here,
and there are rumours that Indonesian soldiers...
are making their way up the road from Batugade.
We spoke to one soldier today...
who believes that a potion given to him by his family--
Go! Go! Go!
You alright?
Are you shot?
No, I'm alright. It's my ankle.
You're very graceful.
You're okay.
My God.
That was fucking crazy.
- Okay. - I want to go.
I want to go.
- Now you want to go back? - Yeah.
Yeah, you see how dangerous it is. I told you.
You didn't believe me.
Okay.
We're going to walk.
There should be a village about half a kilometre.
We walk there, they have a vehicle.
- We get in the vehicle -- - No, no.
No, no, we go back to the Dili and we start a news agency.
No, when I said I wanted to go, I mean I want to go home.
I want to go to Australia.
I can't do this, mate.
I told you you need somebody younger.
You're alright. You're okay. We'll go back to Dili.
- We go back to Dili. - No.
- We made a deal. - I'm sorry--
I showed you this.
I told you that I would bring you here...
and that you would run the agency.
- I can't do it. - I brought you here.
I can't do it.
Okay.
And your journalists?
Somebody else will find out about them.
What about my country? What about what is happening?
-What about my country? - That's your problem.
That's your problem.
Okay, my problem. My problem.
Okay, my problem.
Well, did you happen to notice...
that the helicopter that tried to kill us was American?
No, I was too busy trying not to get shot.
Well it was.
Supplied by the American government.
And how did the Indonesians pay for such a marvellous machine of war?
Pounds, Roger. British money.
And how did this very expensive American helicopter
find us in the middle of nowhere?
Intelligence provided by your Australian government.
They know you are here, Roger,
because your country told them you are here.
Just like they told them about the journalists.
Don't you think this would be at the highest levels of security?
In a war one hour away that your government has signed off on?
And Australians are in danger?
Right, everyone okay? Tony?
We stay here tonight.
It's safe.
Safe enough.
Ini cerita tentang nenek moyang kita.
Kasih tempat, kasih tempat
buat orang-orang asing itu.
Kasih tempat...
buat Komandante.
It's a famous legend.
The birth of our country.
Pada masa itu ada buaya besar...
We want to ask,
why the Indonesians invade our country?
Why the Portuguese doesn't help us?
Well,
we are 3 journalists here.
We are going to find out why and try and help to find out.
We'll try very hard to find out some answers for you.
Something happened here last night which moved us very deeply.
Something so far removed from our experience as Australians,
and yet so inextricably interwoven within...
the atmosphere of this place...
that we'll find it very difficult to convey to you.
Sitting on woven mats...
under a thatched roof, in a hut with no walls,
we were the target...
of a barrage of questioning from men who know they may die tomorrow,
and cannot understand why the rest of the world does not care.
Why, they ask,
are the Indonesians invading us?
Why, they ask,
if the Indonesians believe that Fretilin is Communist...
do they not send a delegation to Dili to find out?
Why, they ask,
are the Australians not helping us?
When the Japanese invaded, they did help us.
Who, they ask,
will pay for the terrible damage to our homes?
My main answer was that Australia would not send forces here.
That's impossible.
However, I said we could ask...
that this fighting is raised at the United Nations.
That was possible.
At that, the second in command rose to his feet and exclaimed,
"Comrade journalist".
He shook my hand, the rest shook my hand,
and we were applauded because we are Australians.
That's all they want,
for the United Nations to care about what is happening here.
The emotion here last night was so strong,
that we, all 3 of us,
felt we should be able to reach out into the warm night air and touch it.
Greg Shackleton, from an unnamed village,
which we will remember forever,
in Portuguese Timor.
You alright?
Yeah, mate.
God.
No.
God.